LEADJITSU Rise in the Dojo - Podcast Show

Episode 4 with Leslie Short - Full Transcript Below

Rhonda Williams  0:00 

Hello everyone, welcome to another episode of LEADJITSU Rise in the Dojo, the show that helps leaders gain insight and inspiration so that they can elevate their influence and impact. So if you’re ready, we’re ready and we are prepared to rise.


Hello everyone, welcome. Welcome once again to another episode of LEADJITSU Rise in the Dojo and today’s episode is episode four. And our conversation and topic today is perfect for the end of our intro together, we rise as we’re going to be talking about inclusive cultures. And in fact, who is in charge and responsible for your inclusive culture. So as we get started today, we’re going to say good morning to our CO hosts and senpais. Good morning, Mireille or good evening to you.


Mireille  1:50 

Good evening.


Rhonda Williams  1:53 

And Miss Roz Jones is here as well. Hello, Good day to you. Don’t start?


Roz Jones  2:00 

Hey, everybody.


Rhonda Williams  2:03 

If you Okay, all right, let me just let you in on a little secret. If y’all could just see what happens behind the scenes sometimes, then you would be laughing right along with us right now. But right now we’re gonna say good morning to our special guests. And I’m so excited to have Leslie short joining us today and give you a quick introduction on Leslie Leslie is the owner of the kava group and author of expand your current culture. She’s a corporate operations strategist, and she has been selected as one of the 50 top Pennsylvanians making social impact. Along with all of her other accolades. She started the Coppa group to facilitate and create new solutions to old and new issues within the diversity, equity and inclusion and cold company culture space. She’s also a former classical dancer, which is just amazing, in and of itself. And so Miss Leslie, we are thrilled to have you. Good morning and welcome to the show.


Leslie Short  3:01 

Man, I’m happy to be here. I’m looking forward to this conversation. Awesome.


Rhonda Williams  3:05 

Well, we’re gonna get started. And we’re gonna dive in here in just a moment. But before we do and before we do our breathing first and Enter the Dojo, I want to just get ask you to get us started by telling us one thing that we get wrong about inclusion or inclusive


Leslie Short  3:22 

cultures. We think it’s about us, and not about the people that we were actually supposed to be including.


Rhonda Williams  3:28 

Me, it’s not about me. It’s not about you. Bursting my bubble early this morning. And let’s get started. So let’s do our deep breathing first, because I want to dive into this conversation. So quick fact about deep breathing. Did you know that patients who practice deep breathing exercises reported up to a 30% reduction in perceived pain levels. And this is according to pain management research. So if you have someone out there know someone dealing with pain, you might encourage them to engage regularly and deep breathing. So we’ll do our deep breathing. Now we typically go in through the nose for four and then hold for two and then out through the mouth before and we do that for two rounds. And then we’re ready to get started so you can go at your own pace, and we’ll start now.


Breathing is central and and really opens up our pathway to success. And it’s really important for us as we prepare to enter the dojo


All right, so let’s dive into our conversation today really excited about this. And Leslie, I’d love for you to get us started with just a bit of level setting. You know, I like the audience to know exactly what we’re talking about and how we’re going to talk about it. So I want you to start by telling us what the AI is. And then we’re gonna say good morning to a few folks that have commented out there. But start by telling us, give us your definition of Dei, because I’m not sure we can really talk about inclusion. Well, if we’re not all on the same page. Absolutely.


Leslie Short  5:33 

And that’s probably the biggest issue. Everyone has their own definition of what what it means. But diversity is race, gender, LGBTQ plus disabilities, sight seen and unseen. And veterans is still under that umbrella. Then equity, the IE, is equals access. Do I have access to understand how I can move high can get new tools? Do I have access into the room? That’s equity? And then do I have the tools to succeed once I’m in the world, every inclusion is not just about bringing people together, it’s not that same be invited to the dance, because if you can, we can all be invited to the dance. What if you don’t have the right steps, the right knowledge, the right ear, to know how to dance once you’re there, then you’re just in a room. So inclusion isn’t is a feeling. It’s a sound, it’s an action. That has to be cultivated for it for anyone to feel like there is inclusivity wherever you walk into.


Rhonda Williams  6:49 

Thank you. Thank you for breaking that all down. And I’m not sure that we often talk about equity in terms of assets. Right, we talked about sort of what equity is, but we don’t talk about the fact that it is something that you give provide a way of supporting, right people who might need something a little bit differently to effectively operate in the space. So that’s lovely. And then I’m gonna ask us to go a little bit deeper into this. But first, I want to say good morning to Regina. And good morning everyone. San Antonio, Texas. Good to see you out there. Good morning, mom as well. This is my mom and she’s our number one fan. And she’s also got cheese always got something yummy, yummy. And her cup frosty vanilla pear smoothie. Yum. Christopher is out there as well. Hello, Christopher. I’m grateful for my inclusion in this roundtable of winners rock and roll everyone. And then we also have out there Raven, who says good morning all good morning. And then Trina is out there as well. Hey, Trina, thanks for joining. Good morning, and she’s joining from Jacksonville, Jacksonville. Ross is in Jacksonville as well. Look at that YouTube probably need to meet and get together sometime offline. So making connections in the dojo. So we’re gonna dive more into this. And I want to talk about this because one of the questions I was have about DEI and everything, it became this whole big buzzword all of the WHO rock around it. But then it felt like we started to get a little bit lost in the alphabet soup, right? And then all of a sudden, diversity that it was yes, race, yes, gender, but it was, well, diversity could be diversity of you know, do geography and diversity of my background and how I was raised, maybe wealthier somebody was not and and so then it got very confusing for organizations. When we’re thinking about diversity. Leslie, should we not be diluting it by all of those other types of diversity even though they matter as well,


Leslie Short  8:55 

and they absolutely do matter. We can speak about age diversity, we can speak about weight diversity, we can speak about economic diversity, we can speak about food and health, diversity, all of those things absolutely matter. If we’re going to have a conversation of the umbrella for which diversity was built in the business network going back before it became dei and Mosaic marketing and multicultural marketing and affirmative action. Like we have to go back to come forward to say this is the umbrella for which it is under the gender, race, LGBTQ plus disabilities. And people said disabilities and never spoke about disabilities that were unseen. And that’s why I’ve seen an unseen they just said disabilities and kept everybody together and kept moving. Where we we now realize that is not the case with anyone you just can’t clump gender together just can’t put race together. What’s that not diluted? Because people start to get scared of it wanted to say that that wasn’t inclusive enough. So they start going alphabets at it. Be belonging don’t get me started on that. And then were added all these letters. And now nobody knows what we’re talking about, somehow became political. And it became about what we’ve learned. What it was


Rhonda Williams  10:19 

I’m losing your mic a little bit. Your your voice cut out a little bit there.


Leslie Short  10:24 

Oh, I’m sorry. There you go. Yes. So I said before George Floyd, people were speaking about gender when he was speaking about diversity. So we’re speaking about race, but they were really speaking about gender. And that is at the point that all of a sudden, you saw women being appointed on boards within it was white women, that was it on board, and everyone was like, okay, good. We’re diverse. Now, we said gender we didn’t, we didn’t do need to do anything else. When we speak about diversity, if you’re not having a full conversation about race, gender, LGBTQ plus disabilities, as seen in the scene, and veterans, then you’re not having a full conversation about diversity. And then you have all the other categories that definitely belong, age, you know, when you’re looking at things, they all have to be considered? Well, let’s be clear on the conversation for which we are having, and the definition for which we’re using. You know, when I work with companies, I go in and I say, what’s your definition of diversity? What’s your definition of inclusion? What’s your definition of ethnic? And what is your definition of culture? See, because if you haven’t defined it, then how do you do it? Yeah, you’re missing?


Rhonda Williams  11:36 

Yeah. It’s really powerful. And as each of us are operating, sort of in our own space, and, you know, trying to show up, I also I think that it’s so important for us to just be aware of where we are, and what’s happening around us. And I’m going to ask this question, because I’m not sure it’s one that I hear asked often. What is those of us that consider ourselves part of those diverse groups? Right, whether it is race, gender, LGBTQ, what is our responsibility in terms of an inclusive culture.


Leslie Short  12:13 

So this is the reason my book is entitled, expand beyond your current culture, you have a responsibility to not only know your culture, what to be aware that there are other cultures next to you, around you, with you, we don’t do this, we don’t walk in this world alone. So it is best if you are a leader, you’re responsible to understanding the folks that you have hired, right? And, and not saying you need to be an expert, but you need to be aware. If you are, if you are someone that just wants to be a good decent human being, can you just go back to humanity and realize that everyone doesn’t look like you sound like you will walk like you. But doesn’t mean they’re any less important than you. You know, I always put up a post that just because my culture doesn’t look like your culture doesn’t mean that it’s no good. It just means that it’s different. We have books, we have the internet. You can there’s no reason why anyone can’t research culture at this point.


Rhonda Williams  13:22 

Moray, no, I


Mireille  13:23 

just wanted to add on what he said at the beginning is, you know, we need to know what we, you know, define what we mean by diversity. And why am I doing I’m saying that is because I’ve worked in different countries. And diversity means different things, you know, in those different countries and in the company’s a local company that I’ve been able to work for. And it is important to actually define it clearly. And, and really, so that you can engage the right people, and also create the inclusion that is needed, you know, when you have this definitive, clarify all of this. And I think it’s, it’s very important, it’s part of the, what we call the rule of engagement. As soon as you have defined you know, this diversity, then you can, you know, have clarity on how you can engage how you can include people and back it up with the research that Leslie’s talking about. So that’s just what I wanted to add here.


Rhonda Williams  14:30 

Yeah, Roz looked like you were gonna say something.


Roz Jones  14:38 

I’m sorry, technical problems again, but as I listened to your talk, we need this because how can I workplace be productive without it? We can’t produce weak you cannot succeed without this piece. This is a very important piece because We each bring something to the table. And if we don’t have that, then we don’t know the strengths and weaknesses of each person, each culture, you know what you can, and you cannot do, there may be certain times of the day when you can’t work, and there’s certain times a day when you can’t work. But however, even with those differences, we still can come together, you know, to get the end result done. But having those different cultures, and having those different mindsets, those different ideas that come to the table will make you successful, if you allow it to be brought into the company at all, I don’t see how someone can be successful without it. Yeah, but


Leslie Short  15:44 

let’s be honest, D is not an add on. That’s the problem, everyone programs, and then they say they’re not working, it’s not an add on, it has to be built into the foundation of your culture of your company. Exactly. You can take all the programs away, the last time I checked, I’m still gonna be a black woman, you know. And so I’m still going to walk in, not with that badge, but with the understanding of culture. And someone’s going to be a white gentleman, and they are going to come from where they come from, and we’re going to have someone that has a disability, we’re all going to be there together. So now the issue is not that there’s diversity within the company, how much do I have? It is how much equity does everyone have? And how inclusive? Are you building your culture to allow people to have a voice for who they are, and don’t say, bring your full self because nobody wants you to bring your full self to work? So let’s stop that. Voice. People want to have a voice to be able to say what they need, figure out how they advance how do they upskill themselves, how do they move forward? That is what we also need. That’s the equity, part of having assets, that upscaling of being able to do that. But we also need to have a voice of inclusiveness of a culture that can say, hey, how do I move forward? Who can I shadow? And what building an inclusive culture is really about?


Rhonda Williams  17:11 

Okay, Leslie, so you don’t you’ve opened up a can now. So so now we’re going there. So Trena says, take the time to learn different cultures. But and we have to want to do that. And not everybody wants to do that. But the first thing I want you to address is something that you just said that I think it’s really important. Because we are saying this a lot now bring your full self to work, you just say that. So please, please break that down for us. Because I think it’s a dangerous place for us to step into thinking that we need to bring all of us into this workplace. And that is not maybe what the workplace needs or wants. So


Leslie Short  17:51 

let’s start with it being called a family, I have a family. I’m good. I don’t want family, I want community and within the community, you meet different people. And so sometimes you bind tighter with different people in your community. But there’s a respect for keeping it clean for making the show the community has what it needs to succeed the post office, a good school, a good bakery, a good coffee shop, whatever that is, right. So when you leave your, your community, your real community and come to this office place, do you want me to because I stretch though my leg up in the air and do all my dance moves, because that’s what gets me motivated if I have an office. And that motivates me before I come outside to deal with everyone. Great. But you’re not going to bring your full self. You bring the best of your skills in who you are. Because asking to bring your full self. Let’s take it this way. When you start dating someone, do you share everything with him? Yeah, there’s some people we know what to do. We all have that friend that you’re like, what? Nine out of 10 You start to reveal yourself right and you get comfortable within that relationship. And that’s around and you share with this usually a very long time before you share everything in your life. It’s a one same as the office place. You bring who you are, you have your voice. But everything is not for everyone and for every place and every time.


Rhonda Williams  19:28 

Such a powerful, such a powerful discussion. And it brings to mind an article that I recently saw of a CEO at a company who was getting decided that he was in the middle of this meeting and he decided that that was the perfect time to have a massage. So he said he checked with everyone, right and they said it was cool. So Oh, he’s in this meeting with his shirt off, getting a massage. And I thought to myself, Oh, okay, so first of all, you checked with everybody, and everybody’s like, Oh, yes, sir. It’s cool. Well, first of all, who’s gonna tell you? It’s not cool? Right? comfortable having that conversation. But second of all, why are you doing something that everyone wouldn’t feel comfortable doing? And you would not allow everyone else to do? Can? Can I sit there as a woman in the meeting with no shirt on? Just get them? No, it’s not appropriate. And that’s not the space are the place for it. So, you know, when we’re talking about things like this, it brings to mind bringing your whole self is something that I think we need to re teach. I don’t know, Roz? I could be totally off on this. But I think we need to reteach that, because I feel like, it’s a thing that we have started saying, and if we’re not careful, it will lead us into trouble. And before we before I go to you, Ross, I want to just show the image of this because the image to me, really caused me to just sort of step back a bit, right and say, oh, yeah, I don’t, I don’t think that’s kind of it for me.


Leslie Short  21:19 

But now I have a story. Not about this one. This one’s a little bit took it to the edge with no shirt.


Rhonda Williams  21:26 

Right? So Can y’all see that? So I’m thinking, Okay, people, like we gotta We gotta do something.


Roz Jones  21:41 

I would, I would have left the meeting. Because if you sit there, that means that you agreed to that this, okay.


Leslie Short  21:52 

And so you have a voice that you will use, because most people are to scan for their job and to check to get up, right?


Roz Jones  21:59 

No, no, at this point in my life. I’m not sitting anywhere or doing anything that’s bringing negative energy, a negative vibe. And it’s not a part of my character, my morals, my integrity, about who I am. So if I sit up there, and watch this, that means I agree with you. And I don’t, Am I doing it? Because I need my job? I don’t do my job that bad. I’m sorry. I mean, if at some point, you got to put your foot down and say, No. So


Leslie Short  22:30 

I also throw away I’m gonna throw a monkey wrench into this for a second, ladies. Yes. What is your culture? And what country was that? Number one, because, you know, I lived out of it, the US for 13 and a half years. So culturally, when we agree, there are places where that is acceptable. But it’s also somewhat acceptable in the entertainment industry, not everywhere, of course, but with your shirt on, I work somewhere where they gave us massages, and you could sign up for it, and anyone could get it and they will come around new massage, but you you chose whether you wanted to have that 20 minute massage or not. So is that part of the culture of what they’re giving? As a leader? What I take my top off in front of the people that I’m there? No. Is it a country that that is customary? We don’t know. Right? Yeah. And so that’s why I always say we have to stop sometimes, and do exactly what I said, How comfortable am I in this situation? Right. And that goes back to who do you report to when things like that happen? Because sometimes it is the leader that


has not the fish stinks from the head. So sometimes is the leader. And I’ve been in that situation.


Roz Jones  23:44 

Where Wait, she says sometimes the fish stinks from the head, which stinks from the head


Mireille  23:49 

all the time actually


Leslie Short  23:54 

goes all the way down to COVID your fish and I do this in leadership with CEOs and somebody looked at me and said let’s see am I the fish I said 100% You are the you are sneaking from the head and you are taking everyone along with you. Now how do we stop the rock before it gets to the tail? Bone? Yeah, honest, we’re so scared. We’re so political on. I don’t want to go to this and HR works for that. And this one doesn’t do this for me. If you’re going to go though, how do you go with solutions? Sometimes that’s what I say to the employees. There’s no going complaint there are there solutions that you have that you would like to share? Hmm, because if you don’t know what you want, then how you telling somebody something’s wrong, and you’re not giving them what you need? What you see because you’re sitting in a different chair than what they’re sitting.


Rhonda Williams  24:52 

Yeah. No, I love it. I think it’s really powerful. Mirelle, I think you were gonna say a something before we went on a whole tangent and Tina’s, to end Trina says, if we don’t stand for something, then we will fall for anything, bring standards back. And that goes back to so I really appreciate you talking about the culture, and what is the culture and what is acceptable versus what’s not acceptable? Because that’s really going to determine if you sitting there with your shirt off getting a massage is okay. Right? Yeah,


Mireille  25:26 

all right. No, I just and I wrote something in the comment is really, you know, where do we draw the line? And we need to know that we need to know where do we draw the line. And when we talking about, you know, when we have those boundaries, it’s not just for people who are following the leaders have to lead that particular thing. And I think the problem we have is that we have, sometimes the clarity, but the leaders are not doing it, they expect, you know, the followers or their team to do it, but they don’t want to comply. And that’s when you know that we have problems. And, and I’ve seen that in different, you know, in different companies where they think that all the DI or all the rules are for people below them, but not for them. And, and you can’t actually, you know, behave like that.


Leslie Short  26:18 

The leaders have to have the buy in, we also have to understand leaders are dealing with the board, they have all the things that they’re dealing with. But again, you set the culture for your board, even if your board hires you. What are you bringing in as that leader that’s going to shake and run this company? How are you addressing that issue, sharing that with the board? And how are you addressing that and sharing it with the person that’s in the mill. So I say this is this conversation has to be from the mailroom to the boardroom. It’s broken up. And you can’t have department culture, I get a lot of that I walk in, and these 10 people like, it’s great, my department is wonderful. Well, I don’t like you over there. But over there is you have to work with over there over there as you just do a pen and you over there, right. So you can’t have department culture and not have company culture. No, departments have their little thing. But your little thing can’t be the way that you run. And everybody else is running amok. So leader has to lead the management, this is where it gets stuck. The directors and managers also have to not have a title but have to have been trained how to lead. You just can’t do a good job and be promoted to a manager to a director without leadership skills, have now running a team and knowing that Mary’s big toe hurts, and John got to take care of the two kids, how do you balance out and I have no kids. Now you have no team, and you just mad at everyone, because you don’t you didn’t get the proper skills you need. Now you want to have to be worried about gender, LGBTQ disabilities. But if you built your team, as this is how we move as a vision as our mission off the walls in the hallways. And give people that power of feeling like they are invested in their own careers in that space. Because it’s not the job of a company to tell me I belong. It’s up to me to decide I belong there for you. To build inclusive culture, then we get to build that.


Rhonda Williams  28:29 

So that belonging Lesley is. So we went through that right? We went through dei and then it was di B and then it’s you know all this conversation about belonging. So break that break that down for us because I do think that that’s another place that people struggle, you know that we want belonging and we’re creating belonging and how do you see that? How are you


Leslie Short  28:51 

creating belonging? If you can’t have a conversation about diversity, equity and inclusion, how do you make it someone Oh, I’m confused. You have no culture, we’re going to build a culture of belonging. But no one has said what belonging is up you want everyone again? Bring your whole self feel at home, you know, just come in and we’re all going to be married. No, I’m not gonna like everyone. Uh, you don’t have to like everyone. I want to respect the people that I work with, and how we move together. But when I walk in, I decide do I belong there? Is my spirit in the right place is my talents being used in the right way? Do I have a voice to be able to maneuver through this? Is this right for me? A company’s responsibility is to build that place of inclusiveness of that equity. I’m able to say diversity because if people just hire all kinds of folks, right, what we’ve you going to have people that come from diverse backgrounds and cultures and beings and economic status and age that you have to make sure that that’s been addressed to how you will move together. Mm. differently because everyone’s not equal. Let’s start with this equality. Because just because John gets five $500, I may think I need $200,000. My skills are not the same as John. So don’t negotiate me next to sorry if there’s anyone John out there. Next to that person, you understand. So it’s about making sure I feel secure where I am not that someone makes me feel secure, or tells me that they are going to make me feel secure.


Rhonda Williams  30:34 

And if I don’t feel secure, Leslie, is it my responsibility to speak up and say that? Or do I then just go find another place? Or I think


Leslie Short  30:44 

you have to look at why don’t you feel secure? Is it? There’s language that’s happening? You don’t feel like you’re getting ahead? You feel like you’re not learning? You feel like you’re being blocked from things than that, then? Who do you go speak to? You know, I think having conversations sometimes is the biggest thing that some people do, like, I’ve talked that talk, are you speaking to the right people? Are you speaking to your girl in the corner, your boy on the side? Who are you speaking to? Are you asking for a mentor? within the company? Sometimes the people don’t have that program have a mentorship program, but when they go and ask, someone else is like, Oh, my God, I would love to mentor them. And the next thing, you know, they’re moving in a different direction. We also have to speak but again, when you speak up, know what you’re looking for. And no deal next week, you’re not gonna do that. What have a plan for yourself? And then if you still are not, sometimes you’re not in the right place. There’s been times where I’m like, I am not, this is not for me. And yes, I know, we all have bills, and yes, I know, we have all those things. But then you have to start making a plan if it means to leave. What’s your plan? To begin to do that? When you’ve exhausted all you can in turn?


Rhonda Williams  32:09 

Yeah, rods and Moray, I mean, it’s a really powerful conversation to not only know that you feel that something is off, because, but then taking the time to pause to dissect that to say, what is it? That’s all? You know, is it every meeting I think I belong in, I am not included, and then they come out, and then they go, Oh, here’s what happened in the meeting. Right? Or, you know, maybe I’m in the break room, and somebody says something off color, and it’s all putting or it’s offensive. And so what is it that’s making us uncomfortable? And so that we’re we don’t feel like we’re belong, I think that’s really powerful. And I don’t know that we break that down enough. For people they know, they get this feeling, but then they don’t know what to do with it, and they don’t dissect it. And then they’re like, this place just isn’t for me. And next thing, you know, you have top talent walking out the door. Right? Yeah. So Roz, I don’t know, like, from your perspective. You know, has this conversation landed for you? And what are you feeling and hearing in this because I know, as a small business owner, you hire a team to go into people’s homes and to do that work? And, and, you know, how does inclusion play out in that?


Roz Jones  33:29 

I was thinking I’m codependent. And I want to say this. When I was in corporate, and I was going to work my mother would always say, when you in Rome do, as the Romans do. Remember? Yeah. You dress a certain way, you act a certain way. And usually, I was the only one. You know, so an S, so I didn’t have a voice. I didn’t have a voice. I came in, I sat at my desk. I did my work. And I went home. And people didn’t ask me my opinion. So now, some of us old fogies have to be retrained. And some and somebody, the younger generation speaks up more than what we did, because we were taught different. So you have generational gaps, and I’m saying that for a reason. So when I hire, I have the same generational gaps to where some don’t speak up, but my younger staff, you know, they put their hat on here, Rosalind


they call me a little girl. I’m not a little girl. My name is you know, and that’s, that’s generational. And so I have to teach them that back during that time, that’s what they said. They’re not trying to be offensive and just remind them My name is Mike, I am who was assaulted. These are thing that I have to teach them about what I just said diversity and inclusion and culture, I have to let them know, we sometimes were taking care of people who are 80 years older than 70 years old. So when they came up, it was a different mindset. So the 50s, which include people who came up in the 40s, the 50s, the 60s, you know, so we have all generational gap. And so I try not to put a 20 year old, with an 80 year old, I try to put someone a little older, closer to that, a so so that so that they can understand the maneuver. It didn’t always happen like that. Right. But you know, but I tried to give the best fit for that need. And all of the time, it didn’t work I missed, I missed the mark. But I try my best, but it’s hard and caregiving is really hard. It’s very hard because they have different needs different personalities. And depending on what your disease is, you also have to remember that sometimes they’re going to say something that they don’t normally say, right,


Rhonda Williams  36:11 

right, right. No, for sure. No care, challenging. Healthcare is really challenging, and, and all of those dynamics and we don’t always get it right. But I think the really important thing is the awareness and that you are paying attention and that you are doing the best that you can to alive. Align the factors that to help your team and your patients feel comfortable and successful in the process. So we’re gonna take a quick commercial break marae will get your thoughts about it on the other side of this and we’re going to take this quick commercial break, we’ll be back in less than one minute.


Speaker 1  36:48 

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Rhonda Williams  37:43 

And we are actually having an open house this month in our modern it’s in our ascension leaders, mastermind group, we have a special guest coming in who’s going to talk about conflict and collaboration. So you can visit ascension leaders.com To learn more information. Now, back to our conversation, because this is this is really getting good. And Moray, I’m gonna turn it over to you. First of all I have to highlight because Trena is was cracking me up with this comment. And when she said not the neck moving Raj, she, they come to you. We all we all know how that goes. So yeah, when that starts moving, then you better sit down or watch out. Do something so for right? Yeah.


Mireille  38:27 

For me, it’s a lot the fact that you know, you have to use your voice. And why am I saying that? When I started in the oil and gas industry the first time I went on a rig. And so there was I was the only woman and they were only men and they had a way to talk, you know, and not in a nice way. And the picture that they were putting in their rooms were actually not very, you know, good for a woman. And so I basically, you know, the first few days, I was not saying anything, I’ve tried to kind of blend into the culture, but I was so uncomfortable. Or that I had to talk about it said that, you know, seeing naked woman in a room in an operation room was kind of uncomfortable for me. And if they really wanted me to work in that environment, those pictures had to disappear. And the language you know, had to change. And I was surprised that you know, little by little because I spent about a US free month there. And little by little at the end things started to change the conversation. The way they were interacting with me but also with them over men was also very different. And that’s why it’s very important to have the opportunity to really express ourselves if we’re uncomfortable and basically say what we I want and so for me, it was I want this picture to disappear. First of all, and I want to have, you know, a different way of being addressed a different way of communicating because otherwise I can’t work here. And so it is important to have this conversation. And for them, they didn’t know because they were always working with men. So it was normal. And so they were just doing what they know. And without, you know, thinking, really, so someone had to tell them no, no, no, it’s not okay, for me coming in with a different background. And I’m not okay. So, you know, I lighting that.


Rhonda Williams  40:39 

So I love that. So Leslie, I know you’re gonna address that. But also, would you address the knowing because I feel like often we believe that people can read our mind, and then know what we need. They know what we’re thinking they know what’s not okay, cuz, they’ll say it. I’ll say, Oh, what did you talk about? Well, they know, well,


how do they know? How


are they supposed to know if you don’t mention it? Because your standards are not there. So address that as well.


Leslie Short  41:05 

You know, especially during the last four years, well, why do I need to teach somebody my culture, because people know what they know. And they don’t know what they don’t know. And they don’t know what they haven’t experienced. So therefore, if you want to be treated a certain way, or something bothered, you have to be having be made aware. And then a little lesson along with it, of the why this is what it is, without having an attitude that you have to be somebody will go a long way. And then how about you ask a question about theirs as well, sometimes, you know, with that, I understand. My boys, you all are used to this post, oh, she’s hot. And this would be me, she’s hot. I just don’t need to see her all the time. And everyone’s gonna have their different way of doing it. And that’s what you need to know. And that’s why you need to know who you are, how you will react in different situations, because everything can’t be the panic button. Assuming that everyone should know how you want, what works in your culture or doesn’t. When I’ve said to people, and it goes back to the Senate before, when I say to people, that generation of show up to work, be quiet, keep your head down, don’t say nothing, get your checking goal. That was real. And so when CEOs listed they never said anything to me, you’re giving me this assessment. And I never knew I had to say to them, This is why when I worked in the hospital, and someone asked a Jewish family asked for a refrigerator. And so it’s like, oh, they get special treatment. Like it’s not about that. It’s about certain foods is about it needed to be kosher. That’s what they’re asking for. She’s not asking you to call the car on Saturday, because she doesn’t want to pick up the phone. It is part of their culture that she is. She’s not going to do that on a Saturday. And I stood there with the security guard and broke that down for him. And the woman looked at me she was like, how do you know I said, because I do work with a lot of people from many different cultures. And so I study culture. And I understand it’s Saturday. And that doesn’t work for you, just with Muslims and asking another woman who was passed out in the doctor’s office who was older, and the woman ran to give her water I said, before you shove that in her mouth, I asked her can she drink the water now because I knew she was fasting. And the woman she was older, she just held my hand. She just held my hand, just as a thank you that I just stopped. And so we need to be able to address different things and share with someone. Not only that it doesn’t work, but maybe the why.


Rhonda Williams  43:52 

The why matters so much. And we’re so we’re so I get it because we’re angry. People are frustrated, tired, tired, they’re exhausted, right? All of that. And even with all of that, the question that I asked is, yes. And do you want this to change? Do you want this to change? Because if you want this to change, you got to start where you stand. Right? And where you stand is in front of this other person who needs an education clearly. Right? Who may not be aware, and you have the opportunity to help elevate that awareness. So maybe it didn’t you know, you had to feel a little bit of discomfort or pain on the other side, but maybe the next person won’t. Because you took the moment to educate them and help them understand what was happening and why and the attitude and angriness and enough is enough I get it enough is enough. But that’s not how this is going to change as just my opinion. I don’t think this is going to change with anger and the negative energy I think We’re gonna have to come from a place of understanding, caring and love, and moving forward together. And


Leslie Short  45:06 

I don’t use the word change, I say shift, as people are scared of change, change means you’re taking something from me. I don’t know when that became part of it, because that’s why if we change, that means I lose out. So that’s not the case. So I say to people, how do we make the shift? Because it’s a process, right? You know, this is a process of you understanding me, me understanding you, but how do we give each other grace? Right? That is the word that I use. Race to make a mistake. Grace, the trip up. There’s grace. And for me to make that trip up for you to make that trip up. Now, we want the second or third trip up. That’s not a trip up. That’s a pattern conversation. What we need to race as we’re learning, I don’t know anyone that just jumped up and learns anything new overnight. Now, there’s some people, but the majority of us need that time. Yeah,


Rhonda Williams  46:05 

it’s really it’s really important. So Gwen is out there. Hey, Gwen, thanks for joining us, always great to see you. And this is a really powerful and important conversation, giving others grace to make a mistake. And oh, man, sometimes the judgment just takes over. Right? And we are judging, and we’re, well, they know, and they always and they should, and I’m not the one and all of this. And all of that helps prevent us from moving forward in a way that, you know, we can all benefit from. So at some point, we’re going to have to find that space and that grace within us and it’s not hard. If I just look at Roz and I say, okay, she made a mistake. She did this, but at the end of the day, she’s a human being. She’s not an ogre, right? She’s not this horrible, awful person. She’s a human being who made a mistake. And then what how would I want someone to treat me when I make a mistake? And I do, and we all do. Right? So Ross, tell me what you’re thinking.


Roz Jones  47:14 

The president came to my mind was, when you say grace, best lack of knowledge. You know, somebody didn’t have the information that they need to complete a task or completed job. So that’s what a grace comes in. You know, a lot of times we make we make decisions out of emotions, and we make the wrong decision. But with that grace, that grace should give you a little should give you some space some time to say, let me pull back. Let me not only look at it from me, but let me look at it from the other person. So you know, I was just thinking that, you know, once you get the information, you still have grace, or like you said, after the fourth or fifth time you keep doing it. Sugar, we got to have a talk, honey.


Rhonda Williams  48:03 

Week, we got we got to have the talk. Right, Christopher? I know one thing for sure, I’d be in a whole lot of trouble if it weren’t for all the ample grace of those around me. Absolutely. We all want grace. And so it’s interesting that so there’s a saying that we used to use in my corporate teaching, as we’re working with organizations and cultural transformation, we say we judge others by their actions, but we judge ourselves by our intentions. So we’ll look at our intentions and say, Oh, I didn’t mean to, oh, I was just thinking but when someone else does something is like, oh, no, you meant to do that. And you, right. So we give ourselves that grace, many times, we can certainly extend that grace to others. So Moran want to get your voice in here. And then I’m gonna do a quick shift because I’m gonna bring in another part. And Leslie and I sort of brought this up in our pre show, but I want to just talk a little bit of fun. Another topic before, after I get your thoughts on this wrap up. All right. Yeah,


Mireille  49:04 

I think the grace is, is really, you know, powerful. But what I’ve also what I’ve also realize is when something happened in a certain environment and it’s important to try to recreate this grace into a different environment, because then you are you both in a neutral environment and things are probably better, you know, you know, it can flow better, instead of staying, if it’s in an office environment, try to go out, you know, find a way to talk outside this particular office environment, to really get the person to be you know, a sell point itself, and really have a conversation and an Allah disgrace and this connection to happen before you can, you know, really resolve have, you know the issue when there is any issue. So, I think that’s something that I’ve seen working, I’ve been using it myself as well, when things are really stuck in the in the professional environment. Try to find a neutral environment to really, you know, get another side of the person and for the person to open up and really bring, you know, what we said at the beginning of the whole as an, and see how we can, you know, be inclusive in everything, you know, in our particular, you know, connection. And I think it’s quite a powerful thing that I’ve seen so far.


Leslie Short  50:40 

One creature, that goes back to the leaders, the leaders prove that and have built a culture of grace, to be able to have that happen. I was flown from New York to California, took some people out of the office space, right into the hotel space, one on ones, and they both come in together and allow them help them here, right, their conversation, so that they could really get their point across without emotion to the other. And when they walked out of there, they had a great understanding of each other and have worked together for a year. And all they do. Now they had new respect for each other. And so that’s really important to know that both again, from the head of the fish leaders through to have that facilitated and invest that $500 for a hotel room, to have people have a conversation and invest in to people’s careers, as opposed to good people. Yeah.


Rhonda Williams  51:46 

So powerful. There is so much, you know, we were saying before the show that we could talk about this for like eight hours and still just barely touched the surface. But I want to touch on something that I see happening in my life and my community around me. We’re getting we’re becoming more integrated, cross culturally, racially, I know in my family, I’ve got people of different races coming into my family, and how do we create this inclusive environment within our families, and as people are coming in and helping them to feel like they deserve to be there, that they are welcome. And, and that sort of thing in our families. And so, you know, Leslie, can you just offer a tip or something? Because I know that we are becoming much more blended in terms of our families around the world is happening everywhere. So how do you make sure you build an inclusive family? And people don’t feel like they are not getting what they need?


Leslie Short  52:47 

I say this all the time. How about just saying hello? Hello? How are you? Welcome. While you’re here, if there’s something you need, if there’s something special you please feel at home, don’t worry about asking for anything. Don’t worry about taking anything, go to the refrigerator whatever you need, I’m here. I’m looking forward to getting to know you. To share with you I look forward to hearing about you. And if there’s something you really need, just please let me know why you’re here. You don’t have to go out and buy all the ethnic foods because you think they’re African? Oh, let me get it. No, ask. What do you mean? What do you like? I don’t have it this trip. I’ll make sure I have an extra for you. How about thank you for loving my my son, my daughter, my cousin, my uncle, thank you for loving them. I love them too.


Rhonda Williams  53:41 

Oh, man, that’s really, really powerful. And something you said to me before the show that I think I’ll never forget is, and you just mentioned that to ask. Because we do what we do we do what we think is right we do I do stuff to make sure that people coming into my home feel welcome. But I never stopped to ask if that’s what they need. That’s what they want. Right? I’m just doing what I’ve noticed to do. And I was like, oh, I should ask people. So and that goes for the workplace as well stop assuming that you know what your people need, and ask them. Hey, how


Leslie Short  54:20 

about when people put all these parties together, and it’s all alcohol, but no one ever stops to think that there may be someone that is sober, right? mocktails? Do they have juice? Do they have water? Do they have other options? You know that there may be someone that is kosher or is Muslim or don’t peanuts to be able to label things. Those are all things that make things inclusive. We think it’s so big, right? Like we need to hug everybody know, just be respectful, that has a peanut that has a coconut that has this. Why don’t we just take time to just label things to just say, I’ve done the best that I can with the people I know that surround me To make sure that you can have a good time where you have something.


Rhonda Williams  55:06 

Yeah, no, that’s good. We got five minutes left, we need to go into our leaders code segment. And wow, what a great conversation this has been so far. So let’s do our leaders code segment. So if you all will take a moment and pull up your leaders code, if you don’t have the leaders code, you can go to leaders code fifteen.com. And get your own download your own copy. Because what we want to do with these are principles that we use in Legion too. And I always asked how do they relate to our conversation today, right when you’re thinking about the leaders code. So when we come back, we’ll ask each member of our panel to share which leaders code resonates with them based on our conversation today.


All right, so let’s start. And let’s start with you, Leslie, what leaders code resonates with you today,


Leslie Short  56:13 

all you got to hate me because it’s one to 15 because you can’t be a leader without having pieces of all of this, right. And I and so you really can’t. But if you have to, I know I pick one or 10 You asked me to do the interview, I’m going to maybe say 10 to flow adaptability. Because as a leader, you have to be able to, to face new challenges and adapt to new environments, and be flexible, be that LEADJITSU because if you’re dealing with culture, you’re dealing with people, human beings, you must be flexible. And to build a culture, you must have a culture that is flexible, and continues to grow.


Rhonda Williams  56:49 

Love that. Now that’s that’s good. I know, it’s hard to narrow them down every time every week. They’re like all of them. I’m like, nope, got to choose one just for this conversation. So, Ross, let’s go with yours. Next.


Roz Jones  57:05 

I chose number eight empathetic connections. It says leaders value empathetic connection recognizing and resonating with others emotions, deepening relationships, and team dynamics reflecting the bond formed on the mat. So I picked that because as as a leader, a good leader, a good leader, will recognize the strengths and weaknesses, and a good leader will be able to match as we talked about mentoring. So a good leader, and this is what I’m talking only about me, I’m match, I match my new employee with an employee that has been here for a while. And I give them a week training. And I said, Honey, if you can’t get after a week, I can’t use you. So it’s up to you to manage your time correctly, she’ll go. So I’m being empathetic, but I also have a timeline. Right? You know, you know, so just so you know, you know, this, you know, you can get paid for training for a book, you know, forever, you know, there has to be a time limit. So, I think this falls in, okay.


Rhonda Williams  58:15 

And there’s an old leader that I used to have, he used to call it compassionate accountability. We used to hate the term every time he used it, but then I started using it later because I was like, You know what, that was actually a really good term. I kinda like it. So, Ray, your leaders code.


Mireille  58:33 

So I chose number 11, which is the Armen inclusion so leaders practice and inclusion embracing diverse perspective to create a unified and stronger wall. So I think the way I see it, I mean, when, you know, when I listen to what we discussed today is we actually take different you know, it’s like when you prepare a meal, you take different ingredients, but the idea is to create a nominee something that will you know, be suitable for everyone. So that’s really the way I see it as well. We have you know, people from different backgrounds, different stories different you know, race and we try to do to create a nominee for from that and, and really have a working environment, since we’re talking about, you know, the office or working environment that will actually be suitable for everyone and that’s, that’s why I’m talking about the Armen include inclusion here. And I also want to go back to what you said, which is to you know, to ask but really ask with the intention to listen as well because otherwise we can’t create this Arman.


Rhonda Williams  59:49 

I love that. No, that’s great. I think for me today, I’m going to go with strategic foresight, which is number 14 leaders cook 14 lead just to leaders demonstrate strategic for recite akin to a skilled martial artists anticipating their opponent’s moves, and involves not only having a clear vision for the future, right? What do you want with this dei work in this space? And where are you going, but the ability to foresee challenges and opportunities and plan strategically back to what you say, Lesley, I don’t hire people that you’re not ready for, to bring into your culture. So you have to anticipate that strategically, in order to be prepared for that. So that’s the one I’m going to go with. So when we come up, we’re gonna wrap up our segment. And what an amazing conversation today, we’re gonna get Leslie’s final thoughts, and also hear how we can learn more about the work that you’re doing in the world. But first, let me just wrap up so everybody can see. This is where you get your own leaders.


All right, Miss Leslie, it’s been amazing having you here with us. What a fantastic conversation. So tell us any final thoughts that you want us to leave with and take away from this conversation? If you’re out there listening, then feel free to share your final thoughts on our inclusion conversation today as well. And, and Leslie, please share with us. Thank


Leslie Short  1:01:22 

you, it’s great being here is the two bottom lines. One, it’s everyone’s responsibility to create a culture and to maintain the culture. It starts from the leader, but it must go all the way down and around. And it must make sense as we say, make it make sense. And must feel like it makes sense as well to each person and continue to expand beyond your current culture. That’s the only way you can be inclusive.


Rhonda Williams  1:01:48 

That’s fantastic. And I recommend that everybody go out and get Leslie’s book Leslie, where can they find your book?


Leslie Short  1:01:53 

Amazon is the best place because it’s worldwide at this point. And that’s the best place to to grab it. And the name of it. expand beyond your current culture. Okay, go


Rhonda Williams  1:02:05 

out on Amazon and find expand beyond your current culture by Leslie short, let’s say goodbye to a few people out there. So Trena says get an understanding by asking I love that so much Trina. And she said sugar. Christopher said damn impressive. Thank you all for being out there and for tuning in. We’ll see you back here next week. I want to say thanks as always, to my amazing co hosts and sim pies you all rock and kick me laughing and on top of my toes. So you’re amazing. Thank you so much. And we’ll see everybody back here next week. Same time, same station for another episode of LEADJITSU Rise in the Dojo. Until then take care everybody

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